OldTools Archive
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123191 | Clayton Carter <crcarter@c...> | 2003‑10‑15 | Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
Hello All, I've been a subscriber for about a week now and I might as well get started. I've got a reasonable amount of experience being `handy', but I'm now looking at getting into woodworking. When I say handy, I mean that I'm comfortable with tools. I've got more woodworking experience than the average American, but that's not saying too much. Years ago, I worked with my uncle (a master carpenter) to build several projects, culminating in a nice table/nightstand complete with a drawer. Of all things. Anyway, that's all more or less meaningless since MOST of the work was done by him and I just got to do a little working and a lot of watching. Which was fine at the time, but I regret it now. Jesus, I'm rambling already. The point is that I'm comfortable with tools and wood. Now I just want to put the two together. I want to start out easy, doing everyone's favorite beginner project, the picture frame. Several of them. After that, I'd like to tackle something significantly more challenging like a Shaker-style table. I want to start with some cheap and easy wood like pine, so that I won't feel too bad when I screw up. And, for the love of God, I don't want to buy moulding. I want to fill my knuckles with splinters by squaring and truing the stock myself. Aside from that, we have to start talking tools. I'm interested in hand tools both for the simplicity they provide and embody and for the fact that my shop doesn't have electricity. :) So there we have it. I've got a short list of tools that I *think* that I'll need to get started. I'm trying to keep this short so that I can keep sticker shock to a minimum. I can then add tools as future projects demand. (BTW, I've looked in the archives but haven't seen anything particular to what I'm looking for.) Saws: `standard' handsaw - this I have; a generic handsaw from Crap Depot; cross cut, I think dovetail or small tenon saw Planes: jack plane (for the rough stuff) smoothing plane (for finishing) Chisels: 1/4", 1/2" and 1" Misc: try square sliding bevel various clamps - probably of the Quick-Grip variety I've already got a hammer, screwdrivers, folding rule and bench. I'm also planning on scrounging for some scraps so I can put together some bench hooks, bench stops and the like. Now for a few questions: 1) Any comments on the above list for a very basic starting set? Additions? Removals? Extra considerations? 2) Will a smaller, finer toothed dovetail saw be suitable for small tenons? I can't imagine it wouldn't be, but you all would know better. If I really get into this, the biggest tenon I'll be working on will probably be no more than 3" long and probably only about an inch deep. 3) What about planes? That will probably be my biggest expense since any one nice plane will cost >$50. Would it be feasible to look for an adjustable plane? Hell, I don't even know if such things exist. How about this: what should I do about planes? 4) Shopping. Where do you folks go to look for quality tools? Internet stores and eBay are one option, of course. If I end up in an actual, real store, are there any particular brands that I should look out for? Either to consider or to avoid? I'd like to avoid big box stores, if possible. I've had a nice time looking around the Lee Valley website, but that's about the only tool site that I'm familiar with. Well, and Rockler.com, but the very first sentence on their site is `Be the first to own...' and that's just so very off putting. So, I open myself up to your advice. Have at it and hopefully I'll learn a thing or two. Clayton Belmont, MA |
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123195 | "Ralph Brendler" <ralph@b...> | 2003‑10‑15 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
I like Tony's list-- good information, and good advice. Here's another take on the "basic tools to get started", only more project-oriented in nature. This originally came off the OldTools list, posted by Walt Barry (another guy I really miss from the "old days") about 6-7 years ago, and I converted it to HTML and added some basic CAD drawings. http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/table/table.htm |
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123194 | "Anthony Seo" <tonyseo@m...> | 2003‑10‑15 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
> > Aside from that, we have to start talking tools. I'm > interested in hand tools both for the simplicity they provide and > embody and for the fact that my shop doesn't have electricity. :) So > there we have it. I've got a short list of tools that I *think* that > I'll need to get started. I'm trying to keep this short so that I can > keep sticker shock to a minimum. I can then add tools as future > projects demand. (BTW, I've looked in the archives but haven't seen > anything particular to what I'm looking for.) > Twice in one day we dive into the archives http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/toollist.html I guess the prices are close to reasonable, considering that changes every 5 minutes what with the 'Bay Tony |
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123199 | Larry Marshall <larrym@s...> | 2003‑10‑15 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
> 1) Any comments on the above list for a very basic starting > set? Additions? Removals? Extra considerations? You might look some more at how you're going to measure stock. A marking gauge is really handy. You'll either want to plan on making or buying a mallet 'real soon' too. Are you planning on drilling any holes? Ever need to cut a curve? How about shaping a curved piece? How are you planning on sharpening those chisels? They won't come sharp and won't stay sharp ;-) In short, while I applaud your short list, there are some basics that probably should be on it. If I were you I'd head to a flea market and pick up 1) brace and some bits 2) coping saw 3) spokeshave 4) 10" mill file & at least one sharpening stone 5) block plane (eg - Stanley 9 1/2 or 60 1/2) ....and, if you can afford to drop another $7-10, find a Disston D-8 to replace that Home Depot saw. Some here will cringe but personally I couldn't live without my dozuki saw, mostly because I can't afford to buy a really good dovetail saw. The unsung advantage of the Japanese saws is that good ones are VERY cheap relative to good western saws. If you're on a budget, you might consider them. > 2) Will a smaller, finer toothed dovetail saw be suitable for > small tenons? I can't imagine it wouldn't be, but you all would The problem, when you start talking about this stuff, is that you either have to get lucky and find a good one at an auction, or be willing to drop $125-150 on one. If you're going to do dovetails and tenons you do need a fine-cutting saw (theoretically you need two to cut tenons) but you could get by with a $30 dozuki. > 3) What about planes? That will probably be my biggest > expense since any one nice plane will cost >$50. Assuming that you're not talking about shopping at Home Depot, you should be able to get a #4 smooth plane and a #5 jack plane cheaper than that at a flea market. Both would be better than anything you can buy off the shelf for $50. > Would it be feasible to look for an adjustable plane? Hell, I don't even know if such things exist. Adjustable in what way? The difference between a smooth plane and a jack plane is mostly the length of the sole. I guess another good piece of advice is to spend a whole bunch of time reading about hand tools, their use, etc. A good place to start, of course, is: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html > How about this: what should I do about > planes? Read the survival tips and flea market tips on the site above (and everything else you can find on the subject) and then go to a flea market and buy yourself a decent #4 plane. Clean and sharpen it and then play with it while you're learning more. This should give you a feel for what you need or don't need in terms of more planes. Let your projects and what's available at the flea market determine what you buy. > 4) Shopping. Where do you folks go to look for quality tools? > Internet stores and eBay are one option, of course. If I end up in You need some definition of 'quality tools' here, Clayton, and then you need to associate that with your budget. You could have a lot of fun with a few Lie-Nielson planes, an Adria tenon saw set, and the like and they sure would qualify as 'quality tools' but you're also talking about spending several hundred dollars for a single plane. > particular brands that I > should look out for? Either to consider or to avoid? I'd like to > avoid big box stores, if possible. I've had a nice time looking Here, I perceive, is your big problem. You really need to learn something about hand tools before you buy any more than what you have. The reason is pretty basic...you'll end up with a bunch of stuff that's not satisfying to work with and that costs you more than it should. For instance, my guess is that virtually everyone in this forum uses Stanley and/or Miller Falls planes of one for or another. My guess is also that they wouldn't give you a dime for the Stanley planes sold from their current production. So...answering your question is harder than you might think. Most of the guys here do haunt auctions, flea markets, antique stores. That's where they do their buying and the reason is that the older tools are often MUCH cheaper and almost always MUCH better. I'm something of a newbie at this myself so I know what you're struggling with. The only thing I can suggest is that knowledge (and there's plenty of info on the web for anyone wanting to become knowledgeable) is the answer. Just to give you something to ponder, here's my limited plane collection and what I've paid for them (rough USD cost as I'm in Canada): Stanley #3: $19 (small smooth plane) Record #4: $15 (standard size smooth plane) Stanley #5: $10 (jack plane) Stanley #7: $35 (jointer plane) Stanley 9 1/2: $10 (block plane) Stanley #54: $3 (spokeshave) Stanley #48: $3 (spokeshave) I've got several really small planes too but they're more specialized and not helpful. I feel I'm really lacking in the area of rabbet and shoulder planes. I could provide a list of everything I've bought at flea markets but it wouldn't further the point. The bottom line is that my Stanley #5 has nice rosewood handles, really nice, heavy cast sole, etc. By contrast, I could have wandered into the local Home Depot (or Lee Valley for that matter) and bought a modern one, with its plastic (can you saw yuck) handles and I would have gotten to pay at least $50 for it. Now, it is the case that my $10 plane had some rust on it and it had what seem to be the inevitable paint spatter on it. So...in addition to my $10 I had to pay an hour or so of my time to clean it up. I also had to sharpen it but then you have to do that with new tools too. I hope you see my point that you can save a LOT of money and end up with better tools if you'll just listen to all the good advice the Galoots have posted on their various websites and have written in the list archives. I know I have and the money I did spend gave me very good working tools. > around the Lee Valley website, but that's about the only tool site > that I'm familiar with. Again, then you need to do more websurfing. Lee Valley is my favorite, though. They provide great service to me in Quebec. I don't buy Stanley planes from them but I have bought scrapers, my dozuki, finishing materials, sharpening stuff, etc., etc.....in short...probably way too much :-) Hopefully some of this might help you. Take it as coming from a guy who's no more than a couple steps ahead of you but maybe that perspective would be of some use to you. -- Cheers --- Larry Marshall Quebec City, QC |
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123202 | Michele Minch <ruby@m...> | 2003‑10‑15 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
Clayton Carter wrote: > I want to start out easy, doing everyone's favorite beginner > project, the picture frame. I don't know if a picture frame is the best beginning project if you are a rank beginner. To get it done well you have to have a few tools and a bit of knowledge. A better first project may be a small bench where all of the cuts are square and nothing has to match up very closely to have a successful end. Ed Minch |
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123206 | Dgoldenhersh@a... | 2003‑10‑16 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
All the tools in the world won't help if they ain't sharp....Learn how to sharpen.......i suggest going to a class. i have seen them offered at woodworking stores....until i finally felt i knew how to sharpen a plane blade and a chisel i never felt "whole"...Dull tools are a drag....they just make you want to go do something else right then......waiting for that magic moment to come by just reading and practicing..well...don't wait ...just sign up for a class on sharpening and get it over with...then practice practice... i didn't because of whatever ....and in retrospect know it would have advanced my skills much quicker and without as much frustration....golly gee this ain't golf...woodworking is suppose to relax me!!!DON ( who's next project is the Room Of Rust) |
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123229 | Andrew Midkiff <annarborandrew@y...> | 2003‑10‑16 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
--- Clayton Carter |
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123285 | "Andrew Fairbank" <eddie_d_eagle@y...> | 2003‑10‑17 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
> --- Clayton Carter |
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123295 | "john" <johnmq@p...> | 2003‑10‑17 | Re: Getting Started (or Advice For A Beginner's Tool Kit) (long) |
avoiding buying/building a new toy . . . err . . . tool. Now, Andrew, what kind of support is that... John Quinn Santa Rosa |
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