My name is Ed Clarke and I'm a computer programmer by trade.  I work for
IBM at the research center in Hawthorne, NY on cable TV management.  But
enough of that boring stuff ...  My only current "old tool" is a borrowed
Bailey #7 plane.

I started off with the best of intentions, watching "New Yankee Workshop"
and reading Norm's books.  The description of the cherry trestle table in 
his first book sounded simple and the picture of the finished article was
simply beautiful.  So I started off with my Hitachi router, Unisaw, Ryobi
jointer and Norm's instructions ... Hey, there seems to be a little problem
here!  I now know the difference between 8/4 S2S and the 8/4 rough cut wood
that Norm ran through his thickness planer.  I have an 8 foot long, three
foot wide, two inch thick cherry table top ... his is much thinner ( and
lighter ).  Now there's the problem of making the top absolutely flat so
that I can finish it ...  

Which all leads into my neander conversion.  I went out looking for a
planer that could take a 36 inch wide piece of wood ... and found out
that if you could find one, it'd take a 10 hp three phase motor, weigh
a ton and cost at least as much as a new car.  Let's rethink this.

I tried using a new Stanley "plane" ( in quotes, because it's really just 
a piece of poorly cast metal with a few sharp edges on it ) but it was 
just too small and difficult to use.  Perhaps a bigger plane would work 
better?  $100 - $200 for a hand tool that you can't plug in?  You have to 
be kidding!  So I borrowed an old Bailey #7 that a friend had picked up 
at a garage sale.  The sole and blade were splattered with varnish and 
the blade had been sharpened with a file.

There are articles in FWW on restoring old planes.  Most of them warn you
not to use powered grinders because you can ruin the temper of the blade.
All of them say to start off with a nice square edge.  So I scribed a line
across the blade about 1/16 inch back from the end of the bevel and started
squaring it up on an oil stone.  An hour later I had sore fingers and a
nice square edge on the blade that just met the scribed line.  Four hours
after that I had a 25 degree angle ( I used a Veritas jig ) with a small
micro bevel on the end.  And really sore arms.  The moment of truth ...
Son of a gun!  It really does shave the hair off your arm!  Put the blade
back in the plane, adjust as per the articles and lets try it out on the
table top.  Wow!  This is fun!  You really can see through the shavings!

I find using this plane to be extremely relaxing and pleasant.  I DON'T
want to give it back but it's not mine to keep.  At least the guy that I
borrowed it from uses his tools and doesn't just keep them to look at.
The table top's about done and it's time to go get my own plane or set
of planes.

I stopped at Lie-Nielson in Maine and tried out some of the new planes
in their shop.  The Bailey seems to do a better job as far as I can tell
( which was quite a surprise ).  So I need to get an old Bailey #7 and
some other usable tools.  Is there a FAQ on this list?  I need a set of
chisels and at least a block plane.  Is there a list of dealers here too?

Ed Clarke
clarke@a...

IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
P.O. Box 218
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

Hi Ed, and welcome!

On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Ed Clarke wrote:

> I stopped at Lie-Nielson in Maine and tried out some of the new planes
> in their shop.  The Bailey seems to do a better job as far as I can tell
> ( which was quite a surprise ).  So I need to get an old Bailey #7 and
> some other usable tools.  Is there a FAQ on this list?  I need a set of
> chisels and at least a block plane.  Is there a list of dealers here too?

Hey fellow galoots, reel him in, we got one... :-)

Well, there is the hand tools FAQ from rec.ww, and 
you can get it from:
        http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/wood.html

There is a hypermail archive (1 weeks worth of postings, I think)
for oldtools at:
        http://www.law.cornell.edu/listservs/oldtools/
(I mention that because within the past week there was a bunch of hand 
saw stuff).

Also, check out the Electronic Neanderthal web page at:
	http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html
(It's got a *lot* of great stuff, and linke to other woodworking things,
including P. Leach's famed Stanley Blood & Gore, and sources of tools).

I'm sure others can point you in some more places. If you need me to mail 
you a copy of an old handtools_faq (March '95), let me know.

	-Mike
-----------------
Michael P. Weaver   Unix Systems Administrator         Email: mikew@u...
                    University Computing Services, UMBC  
                    Baltimore, MD 21228                  
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's.

Ed,

Welcome to old tools. Another soul destined for the quest of finding the
Holy Grail of oldtools, the Fastsest Sharpest Edge.

There are several dealers on the list I buy mine from Patrick Leach at
leach@b... (Oh god! A shameless shill). also try the
Handtools FAQ from rec.woodworking.

Dan Hogan
    West Covina, CA
    dhhogan@l...
    

At 01:31 AM 2/3/96 -0500, you wrote:
>My name is Ron Tewksbury and I've been lurking on the list for 2-3 weeks.
snipperoonie MOST of Ron's bio....
>pull saws and some cheap Crapsman chisels my parents gave to me at Xmas two
>years ago. (Last Xmas they gave me a worn out transitional plane. Its a cool
Ron,
We're SO sorry you didn't enjoy the chisels....but then, do you remember all
those cardboard and plaster thingies you made for us in grade school?....
Best regards,
Your parents



Ron, welcome to the list, and we PROMISE not to tell your parents.....
Regards,
Nick Catania

>using hand tools. Equally unfortunate is that I am in Tucson Arizona where
>such tools are both hard to locate and way over-priced.

Brian

Oh man...  I used to live there, up near Marana..   what an Oldtool hole.
No tools, no wood..  and talk about movement problems...  7% humidty most
of the year, but one month with high humidty.   CRACK.

THere is good news for you if you want to move eastwards....  I made that
move and bought an 80 acre bit o' land, and this weekend I walked my woods
again...  I walked up the stream, past the waterfall over the rock ledge
(which is an ice fall now), look at the birch, maple, buckeye, dogwood, hop
hormbeam, oak...   with careful management I can take out all that I'll
ever need and not even need to stress the woods.

Meanwhile, I have occasionally gone to the shops around here...  molding
planes are about 1/2 the price in Tucson, and the wood hasn't shrunk hard
onto the blade and split the cheeks because of drying out...

Mind you, I think I am still a California boy in many ways... but compared
to Tucson Arizona, this place is heaven...  at least, for a woodworker.

Tom

On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Stan Armstrong wrote:

 > ...
 > All are married, and there are four grandchildren with #5 on the way. 
 > ...                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I knew it was just a matter of time before someone in the family of
an Oldtool galoot was named after a Stanley jack plane!  ;-)

(Welcome to Oldtools, Stan. :-)

-- Steve

Larry Scott writes:
>  I am Larry Scott, age 44, married to a wonderful woman named Sue for 24 
> years (as of Monday, 7/22).

I'm curious, Larry. What was your wonderful wife called for the other
years of her life, if she's only been named Sue for 24 of them? :^)
(sorry, extremely bad joke)

Seriously, welcome to oldtools. Here's an excerpt of the new, improved,
yet unpublished, charter, which has pointers to points of interest.

> Please read the FAQS, and visit the various old tools web sites.
> They're informative, and quite entertaining. You can start by
> pointing your web browser to:
>    http://www.mcs.net/~brendler/oldtools/OTFAQ.htm

Also, you need to hit return a little more often in your e-mail
software. Many mail readers cannot handle the width of 
line you typed in. About 70 characters, or better, you can use the typed
length of the these two lines I've just written, as good examples, yes?

Paddy GM/ENB/Master of the misplaced modifier.

I have found that the satisfaction that one gets from working with more
traditional methods is much greater than with newer methods (power
tools). I have found that I get very little

To Steve Kordik,

Hey, Steve, yes, ditto for me on your "satisfaction" factor with hand
tools. One of the books which I read that converted me from Normitehood
is a book by Drew Langsner called *Green Woodworking* and, of course,
some of the books of Roy Underhill, too.

Anyhow, welcome to the list!

Ed Brinson

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 Robert.McCleary@a... wrote:

[scrape..scrape..of early livehood]

> I have maintained a low profile among you Galoots, sort of a Turkey Lurky
> if you will, because I think I of myself as a SNAGONE (Surely Not A Galoot
> Or Neanderthal Either).  

Bob, there's one thing I've learned in 9-10 months I've been puttering 
around on this list. If you even think you *might* use an oldtool for 
woodworking, then YMBAG! 

[more snipage]

> Because one of my lifetime avocations is gunsmithing, (Heavens
> to Stanley.....He Is A GUN NUT!), I try to keep a low profile and not
> cause nervousness, lest you know I am less than politically correct. 
> Well, I should also make a clean breast of the whole sordid mess. I am
> also a Life Member of the National Rifle Association.  Egad!  Sweep him
> under the porch.

Dare I say it! Hell why not!!!! I too avocate gunsmithing. In fact my 
fooling around with one of Thompson Center's Hawken kits is what got me 
into wanting to work more with wood. Admitedly the kits are 90% 
prefinished and not requiring a lot of skill. But, they do help those of 
us who are not afraid to strike out of the mold of yuppiedom and actually 
get our hands dirty!

After the kit of course the next step was digging into the guts of my 
Blackhawks, Colts, and other assorted longguns, stoning, shaving, and 
general repair as needed. Manufacture of metal parts is not in my 
inventory, but I sure ain't afraid of no wood tinkering! So Hail to you 
and Well Met, fellow Galoot Gun Nut!

> With head hung low, I shuffle back to the obscurity of lurk mode, and
> away from the company of real woodworkers.

Nawwww. Don't do that. Just step around the side to the back porch. Here's 
where the real fun is!!! Fellow Galoot John Gunterman there is just 
fixing to make a raid on the fridge for some more of his special 
nut-busting salsa and I done got a whole case of homebrew iced down over 
there in the #3 tub. Just pass me that .36 Navy over there and mind you 
don't slip on that patch of bear grease I spillt' on the top step!

Gary Johns                
"Talks to Tools"

Steve Kordic wrote in his introductory bio.
>"I feel unworthy to be in the presence of such an august group,..."

Welcome Steve, that's a good START!
It's never too early to start kissing up! ;^)

Darren C. Addy
Genoa, Nebraska

Bob Mc Cleary wrote:
> oriented.  Because one of my lifetime avocations is gunsmithing, (Heavens
> to Stanley.....He Is A GUN NUT!), I try to keep a low profile and not

Kinda gives a whole new meaning to the term "Shooting Board."

Sorry.

Geoffrey Kimbrough -- IT69

** Reply to note from oldtools@l... Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:37:36 -0400 Bob
McCLeary writes:
>
> I specialize in making replica flintlock and percussion rifles and
> pistols, and all the accoutrements like powder horns, bullets,
> buttons, clothing and possibles bags from the pre-American Revolution
> period, (sorry Jeff Gorman), through the Civil War (or War of States
> Rights, as some would have it). There is possibly something here to
> offend everyone. Sorry about that.
>
> With head hung low, I shuffle back to the obscurity of lurk mode, and
> away from the company of real woodworkers.
>

Remember Bob, the guns are real old tools. If they kick you off the
porch I will shuffle off with you. Another politically incorrect
NRA member.

ernie The Arizona tool sink, IT #22

<< I specialize in making replica flintlock and percussion rifles and 
pistols,
and all the accoutrements like powder horns, bullets, buttons, clothing
and possibles bags from the pre-American Revolution period, (sorry Jeff
Gorman), through the Civil War (or War of States Rights, as some would
have it). >>

Nothing wrong with a healthy interest in firearms.  Besides, these 
types of weapons predate most of the tools that get drooled over 
hereabouts.

Chuck Phillips
IT #38
NRA #CTV6281F
Got a good start on a full set of type 9s (#4 & #8).

Work: Chuck_Phillips@c...
Play: cphillips@a...

>> I specialize in making replica flintlock and percussion rifles and
pistols,   
>> and all the accoutrements like powder horns, bullets, buttons, clothing   

In my recent list of sites to visit in Central PA I mentioned the Landis
Valley Farm outside of Lancaster.  One of the buildings/displays is a fairly
complete gunsmiths shop from the colonial days when the PA long rifle was
the standard.  They have a hand operated barrel boring machice, a rifling
machice (again hand powered) and a really neat stone swage block.

Tony

___________________________________________________________________
One is an interest, two is a collection, three is an obsession!

     (Then why do I have 95 gimlets.......................)
___________________________________________________________________

>Nothing wrong with a healthy interest in firearms.  Besides, these 
>types of weapons predate most of the tools that get drooled over 
>hereabouts.

There is nothing wrong in having a interest in something made only to kill.
Whatever Dude. Guns are meant to kill hand tools are meant to create. lets
create not kill. It was a nice touch having your NRA number in your sig. cute.

"To know is to know that to know is not to know".

>I have been lurking on this list for some time, learning much and
>generally keeping quiet in deference to those who know more than I do.
>I am on the waiting list for an IT saw, and look forward to using a
>really well-tuned saw.

Welcome. A fellow portland er. Glad to have you aboard. I never really
had any good handsaws. I finally got some japanese saws and mad Do
they cut. I cannot believe how well. Wish I had them for years I
missed so much.

"Tools are made to be used and great tools are made to be used by great
craftsmen"

I thought it might be time to send in a bio.  My name is Stuart
Minuskin.I am 37 and living in Queensland Australia.I was born and
raised in New York City where I lived until aged 14. I then moved to
Miami Florida where I went on to study accounting. I worked for 1 year
doing this and I decided Too Booring.Having had an interest in coin
collecting I purchased a precious metals business.I then opened another
one and a jewelry shop with some partners.This enabled me to travel the
USA and the rest of the world buying and selling.This went very well
until the breakin and 2 armed robberies.The last armed robbery occuring
when I was traveling in Australia/New Zealand where I met my wife.I
return to Florida to settle my business and move to Australia.  Boy what
a change from New York to Miami to Beaudesert(pop 5000).It was a massive
change of life.I returned to accounting as this was easy to get a job,
but once again I neede something more interesting.I started buying and
selling antiques which has led to buying and selling tools.I dont think
I will give up my day job becauseit is always good as a hobby but things
change as you make your hobby into a business full time.  I dont really
have a specialty but my collection is large.                            
I will be in Florida in dec/jan if any of you galoots want to get in
touch.                                                                  
P.S. I guess my buy of the day was 7 weeks agowhenI answered somebodies
call for some tools he wanted to sell for $100.The best tool was for $5
a Stanley no.54 thats right 54 in the original box never used the blades
never out of the box.The balance that made up the $95 wasnt bad either:4
diston saws Stanley 71 never out of the box, stanley no.7and many many
hand tools.I guess this is why we all still look for that great buy.    
I can be reached by email  at toolx@o...  I hope to have a web
site in the near future.

At 12:20 PM -0500 11/7/96, Jim Wills wrote:

	*The most encouraging, confirming, there's-hope-yet bio I've seen
on this list.*
	Jes' like at the ole' time tent revival, when the Saved come forth
to Bear Witness, it's a great day!
	Welcome to the Porch, Jim.
		Tom H.

Thomas H. Holloway, Professor of Latin American History, McGraw Hall,
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY  14853-4601       Email thh1@c...

** Reply to note from jim@o... Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:20:13 -0500 
>    
> 	Lastly, another goal I have is to sell my Leigh jig, router, jointer and 
> some of my other noisy, dust-creating, appendage mangling devices as soon 
> as I can replace them with the appropiate planes and hand tools.  I will 
> adjust my projects to match my skill and tools - I would rather make 1 nice 
> item by hand then 10 by cramming boards through machines. 
>    
 
As a convert to the joys of hand jointing let me encourage you to run, not 
walk to a source of a good jointer plane(s) and get rid of that power pig. 
There are few things more therapeutic than hand jointing.  It isn't even 
hard to learn. 
 
You can hand joint stuff that would take a couple of hours to figure out 
how to do on the power thing.  Oh yeah, did I say it was therapeutic. 
 
just say (tm) my jointer got about 1/4" of digit last year.  I wasn't 
sorry to mothball it. 

ernie 
The Arizona tool sink, IT #22