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262875 | "Dennis Heyza" <michigaloot@c...> | 2017‑08‑14 | tool bargain FYI |
Friends one and all, If you are in the market for a bargain on new chisels that have been pretty well reviewed, be aware that Home Despot is selling the 8 piece set of Stanley SW 750s including the tool roll, for $165 (online ordering only). That's significantly lower than the normal sources. Dennis Heyza - who just posted twice in one day! Utica, MI |
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262891 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑15 | Re: tool bargain FYI |
Dennis - I am not in the market for these, but a lot of beginner guitar makes talk about these chisels with a whistful tone to their voices. I was going to re-post this and checked, and there are a couple of places that have even better prices - saw as low as $158. Compare to $229 at Rockler. Ed Minch |
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262892 | "Tony Zaffuto" <tzmti@c...> | 2017‑08‑15 | Re: tool bargain FYI |
I have picked up a couple on Amazon, individually for $12 to $15 each, 1/4", 1/2" & 5/8". I have found them to be very good, maybe not matching the excellence of vintage Witherby's or Ward's, but nonetheless, an excellent choice. I have many, many vintage tools and bought the SW pretty much as a lark. Now, we'll probably hear the harumph's from the innerweb about how can a cheap chisel be any good, but in my experience, with having used the chisels (not just sharpening them each day), they are worthy of consideration. Tony Z. -----Original Message----- From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of Ed Minch Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 7:01 AM To: Dennis Heyza |
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262946 | Alex Moseley <alex.moseley@g...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Give me a Greenlee chisel any day. Here in flyover country, I only see the likes of Swan in pictures (ya know, the kind you have to turn sideways to appreciate), but my Greenlees have always been reliable tools, taking and holding a keen edge. My first was a 3/8" bevel-edged socket chisel I got from my dad, a discard that neither he nor my grandfather saw the value in. The handle for it was my first lathe project under my grandfather's tutelage. As much as I love seeing the Greenlee stamp at a garage sale, be it a chisel or a NOS auger bit, I'm not in acquisition mode these days. The next acquisition I make will be a dehumidifier for my basement workshop. Alex in KC Watching GIT #1 get ready to start her senior year of high school this morning. |
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262953 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Why disparage small size chisels? And why does everyone love socket end best (instead of tang, or combo socket & tang, the latter is my fav) Last year, I came across almost new Marples (with the old label) in 1/16" and 1/8" inch sizes. These are more difficult to find, and are often mis-identified as mortise chisels because of their shape- but they were indeed sold as optional part of the bevel edge chisel set. Small sizes are very handy. Although everyone seems to love socket chisels, I find them a pain. After owning both, (actually many sets of both), and living in a country where we can go from minus 30 to plus 105 degree F in 6 months (with corresponding humidity) sockets do not stay put, period. Yes, even when using premium dry wood to make handles with precise socket fits (yes even with the hairspray trick) I'm sick of my perfectly sharp chisel dropping out of the socket. So yes, they look nice, and yes it's wonnerful to have sets of extra long and extra short handles that are easy to swap out, socket chisels leave a lot to be desired. In contrast, socket & tang chisels are the results of centuries of refinement- strong support for the blade, plus firm attachment. Like handsaws, the pinnacle of chisel manufacturing occurred in the previous century. Newer metals may stay sharp longer, but make touch-up resharpening an unpleasant chore (rather than a quick couple mins). Let's talk handle woods for a second. Which woods get nicer with sweat and use? Which feel nicest? Which wood lasts longest? For me, it would be boxwood as my number one choice, then rosewood of whatever flavor, ( not going to mention the mundane stuff: ash, beech, etc). I have a small ebony handled awl, but I've never had an ebony handled chisel ( ebony also gets lovelier with age.). Any other woods that are appealing? Cheers from the far side of the spittoon Claudio |
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262955 | William Ghio <bghio@m...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
> On Aug 16, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Claudio DeLorenzi |
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262956 | Greg Isola <gregorywisola@g...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
> > Here is a set of bevel edge chisel w/ Ipe handles. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../albums Wow, Bill. Just wow. That's about the best-looking set of chisels I've seen in a long time, beautiful handles and all. Thanks for sharing. Greg Isola Alameda, CA |
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262957 | Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Bill those really are nice chisel handles. All of the Ipe I have seen was very open grained and very splintery, I must be looking at the wrong stuff! Brent Sent from my iPad |
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262958 | William Ghio <bghio@m...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Got a note from Guitarman Ed that I had put in a (semi) poor link to my chisel handles so here is a better one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../32890071853/in/album-721576 85212615493/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../32890071853/in/album-7 2157685212615493/ He also reminded me that I had a pic of the PEXTO set down the page a ways: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../21658014300/in/album-721576 58899268748/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../21658014300/in/album-7 2157658899268748/ Bill |
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262959 | Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> | 2017‑08‑16 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Do you mind sharing where you source your Ipe Sent from my iPad |
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262961 | William Ghio <bghio@m...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
I had a deck made out of Ipe. There was 4/4, 5/4 and 4 x 4 ’s in it. We tore it off to put on a sunroom and I pulled up everything to make a smaller deck. Most of what was left over went to Galoots who responded to my offer for free cut offs. George Wallace and Gary Caron live close enough to have scored some good sized stuff (George made a gazebo). I, of course, kept back what I thot was a good supply. Unfortunately I have very little handle size material left. Poor planning. I bought it all 15 years back as decking material mail order out of New York and Georgia lumbar yards. That’s why I have a rather wide variety of grain showing. I think Ipe is a name used for several related tropicals. Most turn well, but always need final sanding. Some plane well. Some is stringy & brittle. What they all share is that thy are HARD on edges, near impossible to chop cross grain, can spark under a power tool, are hard to glue, the dust stains things pinkish and if you catch a splinter it will fester. But they make tough, strong parts. I often use it where someone else might use metal. And my big mallet turned out of a 4 x 4 is awesome. So, for you guys that got my castoffs, time to chime in. Bill |
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262965 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
On Aug 16, 2017, at 8:13 PM, William Ghio |
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262966 | Archie England | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Very nice mallet. Bill gave me a chunk of a 4X4 post and I made this 12-1/2” long mallet. The surface is silky smooth - just BLO on it - and after a modicum of abuse is still in minty crisp condition https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/35817348593/in/dateposted-public/ Ed Minch ----- |
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262972 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
why does everyone love socket end best This is interesting Claudio. I have often wondered why there are fewer English socket chisels. It must be all about climate. I have socket chisels I handled 26 years ago, and they have never loosened. Nope, no hairspray or any other kind of lacquer. Get a good fit where I live and its practically permanent. Hey Bill love those ipe handles! Way yo go!! I got some ipe leftovers from a 90's deck project too. A neighbor had done one and was moving to alaska. Including a couple of 8 foot 4X4's I can barely get off the ground. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/demon1.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/demon2.jpg yours Scott ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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262973 | William Ghio <bghio@m...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
> On Aug 17, 2017, at 11:36 AM, scott grandstaff |
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262976 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Hi On 2017-08-17 04:04, Ed Minch wrote: > On Aug 16, 2017, at 8:13 PM, William Ghio |
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262979 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
I just used the standard 1970’s Rockwell tools that came with the standard 1970’s Rockwell lathe. I thinbk I sharpened before and after Ed Minch |
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262981 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑08‑17 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Bill Ghio wrote: "Yep, I have five in the 1/8 to 1/16th range. Just seems at that size they were hard to make accurately. But that is good because often only one will fit the need precisely.... "....However, my bench chisels w/ handles modeled on the bulbous style Stanley Everlastings are the ones used w/ a mallet and they can really take a sever pounding." Its hard to find them under 1/8". My two or three smallest started life as engravers' burins with palm handles; on my bench I have a 3/32" and a 1/16" rehandled in London Octagonal, and I use them all the time. Interesting, though; they can be dull, even chipped all to hell, and work almost as well as when freshly sharpened, because the pressure per square inch is so high with a working end that small. Last Christmas Bill gave me a 5/8" butt chisel with the bulbous Everlasting- style handle, though it's an original leather-capped hickory rather than one of his own ipe. It fits my hand and balances so perfectly that it has become the core of a set, 7" to 8" overall and deliberately different makers and different woods. 1/2" Witherby from the 1880s in black locust, 5/8" Buck Bros. cast steel in hickory, 3/4" Wards Master Quality in an unknown red-brown hardwood that I knurled, and 1-1/4" Greenlee in persimmon. I love the feel of Everlastings, though I can't bring myself to approve of chisels designed to be abused. The Wards Master Quality is not the Ward's lauded by British gurus, but a top- of-the-line brand from Montgomery Ward. I don't know who made them, but I have two and their steel is as hard as anything I have ever encountered. As hard as my good Swans. Maybe harder than my few Japanese blades. Harder than Vaughan or Millers' Falls HSS machine hacksaw blades, though not as hard as Starrett Red Stripe HSS hacksaw blades. So hard that I'm still trying to flatten the back of a 2" by 5" chisel, though I've been working at it for years (by fits and starts.) If you see one, get it. Tom Conroy Berkeley |
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262983 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
no pictures it didn’t happen Ed Minch |
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262988 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
On 2017-08-17 9:36 AM, scott grandstaff wrote: > why does everyone love socket end best > > This is interesting Claudio. I have often wondered why there are fewer > English socket chisels. > It must be all about climate. Or maybe it reflects the cost of materials & labour involved in the making. FWIW Don -- On Jan. 26, 2016, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal (CHRT) ruled that the Government of Canada racially discriminates against 165,000 First Nations children. “Until all of us have made it, none of us have made it.” - Rosemary Brown, the first Black woman elected to a Canadian legislature |
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262989 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Ed Minch wrote: "no pictures it didn’t happen" I've lived my whole life in a fairy tale, from the time I was in the SCA in my teens onward. Wish I had photos. But I don't, nor the wherewithall to take them. Maybe in the future. I hope so. Tom (And remember, one word is worth a thousand pictures. on the right topics). From: Ed Minch |
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262990 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
I hit the "Send" button prematurely. My apologies. Pass the spittoon. Tom |
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262991 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Now little infills |
>> http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/demon1.jpg >> http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/demon2.jpg > Way too cute. Is that just channel stock or did you dovetail it? That is the great Rob Brophy Regular coffin shaped infill plane bodies. All steel. People don't know how much talent he really has. Never did. But the boy has hands and eyes. He's just a little shy, but what a freaking mechanic! lol He made me 5,............... #1 sized bodies. This was my first go at stuffing one. Thought I'd try ipe first, since I have plenty. yours Scott > > -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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262994 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Or maybe it’s the same reason no one in Murica offered an overweight stuffed smoother. Stanley made a couple of planes with the “H” suffix for “heavy” but they were offered mainly oversees. Just a fashion? Ed Minch |
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262997 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:49 AM Thomas Conroy |
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263000 | james rich <jameslrich3@g...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Now little infills |
Looks like a Hock iron, how does she run? On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:36 PM, scott grandstaff |
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263002 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Galoots Assembled, Looking in Jane & Mark Rees "Christopher Gabriel and the Tool Trade in the 18th Century," the transcription of the 1791 inventory and notes indicates that "18th century tanged bench chisel handles are invariably octagon shape without ferrules. They cost 0.33d each." The following entry for socket chisel handles are more expensive (5 shillings 9 pence for 208 tanged handles vs. 4 shillings 4 pence for 70 socket handles). Also, it is apparent from the inventories that tanged chisels were much more common than socket chisels. Cheers, John John M. Johnston jmjhnstn@m... “P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P. On 2017-08-17 9:36 AM, scott grandstaff wrote: > why does everyone love socket end best > > This is interesting Claudio. I have often wondered why there are fewer > English socket chisels. > It must be all about climate. Or maybe it reflects the cost of materials & labour involved in the making. |
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263003 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Seems like making a socket would cost more than making a tang. Could it be a simple cost issue? Same reason there are fewer Bedrock than Bailey Stanley planes? Ed Minch |
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263006 | "Marvin Paisner" <paisners@s...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Ed & Galoots, I think fitting the wood handle to the tang chisel would be more labour intensive than fitting a turned handle into a socket. With the tangs being hand forged they could have a slight bend as well as varied thickness on the taper, leading to more time necessary for each fitting. The sizing of the sockets might be more uniform as I believe they are shaped on a cone. just my take on it ..... Marv Paisner Kootenay Lake, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Minch" |
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263015 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2017‑08‑18 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
> I think fitting the wood handle to the tang chisel would be more > labour intensive than fitting a turned handle into a socket. Not really. I have done dozens of both styles, to say the least. It comes down to a hand fit either way. You can always shoot for average to start, but tang or socket the final fit is by hand. Burn in the tang or whittle the socket peg. This is why it always takes longer than you wanted it to, when you make chisel handles. I have some of Jim Thompson's chisels. He sent me some, "for safe keeping". Chisels I sure didn't want, because I knew what it meant. To him and to me. I need to come up with some kind of contest, to award prizes I think. yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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263016 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑08‑19 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Marv Paisner wrote: "I think fitting the wood handle to the tang chisel would be more labour intensive than fitting a turned handle into a socket. "With the tangs being hand forged they could have a slight bend as well as varied thickness on the taper, leading to more time necessary for each fitting. "The sizing of the sockets might be more uniform as I believe they are shaped on a cone...." My experience has been just the opposite, that fitting a handle to a socket chisel is much more fuss and work than fitting a tang chisel. The inside of the socket is rarely uniformly tapered, so measuring and turning the tenon has to be followed by a twist-and-scrape process to get uniform contact between wood and metal. If you don't have uniform contact, the blade will fall off the handle. You can try to shortcut by using a softer wood for the handle, but then the tenon snaps. And if the socket was formed by a weld and it wasn't prettied up on the inside, then you have a big step where the layers overlap and that multiplies your problems. I've fitted tang handles by burning in and by reaming with the tang. And I've fitted socket handles where I whittled the tang, where I did the basic shape on the lathe, and where I had a pre-made NOS handle where the tang had to be whittled or scraped to fit. Every one is different and takes a different amount of work, but overall I think the tang handles easier to set in place. Tom Conroy Berkeley |
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263018 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2017‑08‑19 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Looking at late 18th early 19th Century inventories, we can see that tang chisels were much more common than socket chisels, and tang handles by themselves were much less expensive than socket chisel handles. John “P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P. |
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263019 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2017‑08‑19 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Tom Conroy wrote: My experience has been just the opposite, that fitting a handle to a socket chisel is much more fuss and work than fitting a tang chisel. My experience is the same as Tom's. Exactly the same. Mike in Woodland |
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263021 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2017‑08‑19 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
> > > Snip > My experience has been just the opposite, that fitting a handle to a > socket chisel is much more fuss and work than fitting a tang chisel. The > inside of the socket is rarely uniformly tapered > > I've fitted tang handles by burning in and by reaming with the tang. overall I think the tang handles easier to set in place. > > Tom Conroy Snip Yes fitting truncated cones into sockets can be a pain because you need the major and minor diameters and the exact length plus the little extra you need- the allowance for compression into the socket- (depending on which wood you have to hand to make the handle). This is only if you mean to use the shoulder of the socket as support, as the OEM intended on some heavier chisels with a nice thick rolled lip, designed for mallet use in house or boat construction. Shorter, thin socket chisels (some of which have been ground off to remove ballooning by 'hammer mechanics' beating chisels with a -gasp- steel hammer rather than an appropriate mallet) sometimes came from the manufacturer with handle socket cones that extended upwards with no wood shoulder to rest on the lip. I have a few of those with thick leather washers fitted on a button of wood left on the end of the handle. On modern faux-socket-tang chisels, the kind with synthetic (plastic ) handles of whatever kind typically come with a four sided tang that is not tapered, and a strong base to support the handle to prevent the handle from advancing further down the chisel with use (BTW, to remove these, clamp your chisel blade in a good wood lined vise, vice grip the synthetic handle, and whack the cheap handle off with a mallet, ie if the handle is ugly- i.e. chewed up beyond polishing out with plastic buffing compound). Old school tangs were tapered to a point and meant to be 'burned in' to a wooden handle. Very old US and some Brit chisels came with simple octagonal handles, usually with a moderate taper, but I don't find these too often anymore. There was often some 'fullering' or flat made at the bottom of the tang (nearest the chisel shoulder) to prevent the handle from being split, but not always. Slender paring chisels often did not have anything except the tang, whereas 'pig sticker' mortise chisels had huge bases. Everything was made 'fit for purpose', wasn't it? Cheers Claudio |
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263340 | "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> | 2017‑09‑19 | Re: Regarding the Sweetheart Stanley Chisels |
Scott said: SNIP I have some of Jim Thompson's chisels. He sent me some, "for safe keeping". Chisels I sure didn't want, because I knew what it meant. To him and to me. END SNIP Yeah, Scott, me too. I bought a bunch of tools from Jim in those last couple of years, and then he gave me a bunch (wound up with both an eagle head and panther head saw, along with beautifully handled chisels). He had been through years of false alarms, so I kept telling him he shouldn't let go of them until he was sure, but he WAS sure, and unfortunately, he was right. A good friend, and amazingly skilled man was Jim. Joe Joseph Sullivan |
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