hello, my name is bill kasper and i am hanging on by my fingertips to 
the guard rail at the top of the slippery slope.

i have made shelves and other wooden items (toys, etc.) for most of my 
life, but have always wanted to build fine furniture.  not art-grade 
furniture, but user furniture that my great-grandchildren will be able 
to scoff at ("but mom, i want the hyperplastic chair, not that 
splintery old thing great-grandpa bill beat together... *please*, 
ma?").  i've always used p*w*r tails because handtools seemed to be so 
damn dull.  and i always lusted after my great-uncle's shopsmith, until 
it got stolen.  so i have never given old tools a chance.  until a 
timber-framing friend mentioned disston saws, and i found the galoot's 
progress in search of more information.

damn.

now, (and please understand i have a penchant for mild, parenthetical 
or ellipsoid digression...sometimes both in the same digression), my 
lovely wife (MLW, from now on) gave me a complete shopsmith, with all 
the bells and whistles, for my birthday about two weeks before i heard 
of disston saws, which was about six weeks ago.  so in the last six 
weeks i have been thinking of furniture, and the shopsmith, and now old 
tools.  i will use both, unapologetically, but love old things and will 
be purchasing, restoring, and using them in pursuit of my rekindled 
desire.

current tally (all are users, none for the, ahem, "collection"):  3 
saws (disston d8 thumbhole rip, no. 4 28" mitre box saw, and no. 4 14" 
backsaw), three chisels (a butcher 1/8" tang mortiser, a jorgensen 2" 
socket, and a friedrichs 1 5/8" socket), a stanley sweetheart 8" 
t-bevel, and an old stanley framing rule.

i will be posting some questions soon about refurb of these lovely 
devices, and for attaching the handle to the marking knife i ground 
from an old nicholson file...

thanks.
bill kasper
santa cruz, ca

just say "oh, my, god, you want to buy *what*?"

On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 12:38 PM, NickNaylo@a... wrote:
>> hello, my name is bill kasper and i am hanging on by my fingertips to 
>> the guard rail at the top of the slippery slope.
>
> OK, who forgot the grease the guard rail over by the slope???
>
> Welcome aboard Bill, you've just gotten started, I'd hate to have to 
> justify all of my "users".

thanks, michael.  i guess i am going to have to find new ways of 
justification...i play (in a very amateur fashion) saxophone, and have 
always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage 
saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and 
ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for 
practicing at work".

i don't think that'll work for old tools.

bill
santa cruz, ca

just say "trying to end my message in accepted galoot fashion..."

> hello, my name is bill kasper and i am hanging on by my fingertips to
> the guard rail at the top of the slippery slope.

OK, who forgot the grease the guard rail over by the slope???

Welcome aboard Bill, you've just gotten started, I'd hate to have to
justify all of my "users".

Michael-San Francisco

On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 02:32 PM, Curiousart@a... wrote:
> bill sez:
>
>> i play (in a very amateur fashion) saxophone, and have
> always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage
> saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and
> ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for
> practicing at work".
>
> Hooboy, as if you didn't have a problem before!
>
> For those who don't know, saxophonists are every bit as obsessively 
> geeky as
> us galoots. They hang out on breaks endlessly discussing saxophone 
> minutia,
> putting every non saxophonist in earshot into a deep sleep. They show 
> each
> other publicity photos of famous jazz saxophonists while shouting 
> things like
> "No, no, you idiot! Can't you see he's clearly using an Otto Link
> mouthpiece?! *That's* how he gets his sound!" They even have the 
> equivilent
> of obsessive sole lapping where they will spend hours flattening the 
> spot
> where the reed contacts the metal mouthpiece on a piece of sandpaper 
> fixed to
> plate glass.
>
> Welcome to the list, you poor bahstid......

no, no, art, i'll be a poor bahstid in a few months, right?  remember, 
i still don't have any stanley planes...lol.

as for the instrument obsession, i've suffered from GAS (Gear 
Acquisition Syndrome) for the past five years, but recently have gotten 
it under control...really, i have.  no, i mean it, ok?  ok, well, 
mostly under control.  ok, well, mostly just too busy, but given the 
opportunity i POUNCE....sorry, sorry, *whew*.  trembling.  must go home 
and search for a bonade tenor sax ligature on ebay...or decide if that 
buescher "new aristocrat" in silver is going to be my work alto...

actually, when i was also buying and selling vintage trumpets and other 
brasswinds for a local shop (and to make a bit of money for my habit, 
er, my accumulative need) i ran into paddy odeen on the tpin list, when 
he was the original benge nut.  does he still hang out here?

rotc:  anyone can tell me if there's an ohio tools site that shows the 
older block planes?  i think i have one.  pictures soon.

bill
santa cruz, ca

just say you'll call back later when i can talk about it.

	Michael confesses:

> I was considering a small bench at work for a while, to plane and mortise
> on my lunch hour and of course, justify a set of work tools.  Sadly, the
> powers that be were not amenable to wood chips and shavings on the
> carpeting.  
> 
	Ah, yes, reminds me of the time ... just a few months back, a
package arrived from the other coast (at work, of course), and I just
couldn't help myself. So I strolled casually out to the smokers' patio on
the side of my company's office building, sidled over to the far bench on
the far side of the farthest picnic table, crouched down, and planed a quick
little thumbnail along the edge of the redwood bench with my new woodie.
Ashamed? Perhaps. Repentant? Maybe a little. Would I do it again? No
comment.

	Greg Isola
	Alameda, CA

On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 02:52 PM, NickNaylo@a... wrote:
> i have  always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage 
> saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and 
> ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for 
> practicing at work".
>
> I was considering a small bench at work for a while, to plane and 
> mortise on my lunch hour and of course, justify a set of work tools.  
> Sadly, the powers that be were not amenable to wood chips and shavings 
> on the carpeting.  Have to limit it to whittling with the smokers 
> outside the building, and they haven't complained about wood chips in 
> their ashtrays.

i am fortunate to have tolerant coworkers and a paper storage room (in
the machine shaft) where i can blow my horn and not make the listening
populace violently ill.  i suppose i could set up a small mortising
bench there, too...but where to keep the tools?  i guess i would have
to make a wall box, too.  and i'd need more tools to make that, right?
oh, god, this is too familiar...

bill
santa cruz, ca

bill sez:

>i play (in a very amateur fashion) saxophone, and have 
always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage 
saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and 
ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for 
practicing at work".

Hooboy, as if you didn't have a problem before!

For those who don't know, saxophonists are every bit as obsessively geeky as 
us galoots. They hang out on breaks endlessly discussing saxophone minutia, 
putting every non saxophonist in earshot into a deep sleep. They show each 
other publicity photos of famous jazz saxophonists while shouting things like 
"No, no, you idiot! Can't you see he's clearly using an Otto Link 
mouthpiece?! *That's* how he gets his sound!" They even have the equivilent 
of obsessive sole lapping where they will spend hours flattening the spot 
where the reed contacts the metal mouthpiece on a piece of sandpaper fixed to 
plate glass.

Welcome to the list, you poor bahstid......

Art Bailey 
Somerville, Ma.

i have always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage
saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and
ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for
practicing at work".

I was considering a small bench at work for a while, to plane and
mortise on my lunch hour and of course, justify a set of work tools.
Sadly, the powers that be were not amenable to wood chips and shavings
on the carpeting. Have to limit it to whittling with the smokers
outside the building, and they haven't complained about wood chips in
their ashtrays.

Michael

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:06:15 -0700, Bill Kasper wrote:

[snip]
>thanks, michael.  i guess i am going to have to find new ways of 
>justification...i play (in a very amateur fashion) saxophone, and have 
>always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage 
>saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and 
>ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for 
>practicing at work".
>
>i don't think that'll work for old tools.

Something similar works, though.  You need multiples of almost 
everything in order to work efficiently.  For example, you need a jack 
plane with a wide-open mouth for hogging off waste and then another with 
the mouth set fine for cleaning up before going to the jointer plane.  
You need lots of braces -- one for each commonly used bit size.  You 
need a complement of chisels that are ultra-sharp for fine work and all 
the same sizes for working through wood that might have staples in it.  
Similar for crosscut saws, ripsaws, etc. (and multiples of each in 
different TPI).  And, of course, you need tenon, dovetail, and carcase 
saws filed for both rip and crosscut, just in case.

--Mike Sullivan

Instrument acquisitions disorder, anyone?  At last count here, it was a
concertina, a bodhran , mandolin, gee-tar, tenor sax, alto sax,
tambourine, three dizi (Chinese bamboo flutes), three pennywhistles, a
bagpipe chanter, baby grand piano, Victorian pedal pump organ, and yes,
one banhu and one erhu.  Can I play any of them in public?  None of your
durn business. Fear is a clear instrument/galoot connection developing
here.   

Wondering why my voice recognition software always parses "galoot" as
either "pollute" or "the loot ".  You would think I mumble or something,

----------------------------------------
      :         Neal Connor
  '.  _  .'     
 -=  (~)  =-    neal@n...
  .'  #  '.     http://www.nealconnor.org 
----------------------------------------
For reply, send a self-abused stomped antelope to:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Kasper [mailto:dragonlist@i...] 
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 6:51 PM
> To: oldtools
> Cc: oldtools
> Subject: [oldtools] Re: hanging on by my fingertips
> 
> 
> On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 02:32 PM, Curiousart@a... wrote:
> > bill sez:
> >
> >> i play (in a very amateur fashion) saxophone, and have
> > always justified the continual pursuit and capture of vintage 
> > saxophones in the wild (along with their spoor, mouthpieces and
> > ephemera) with "well, i need one for practicing at home and one for 
> > practicing at work".
> >
> > Hooboy, as if you didn't have a problem before!
> >
> > For those who don't know, saxophonists are every bit as obsessively
> > geeky as
> > us galoots. They hang out on breaks endlessly discussing saxophone 
> > minutia,
> > putting every non saxophonist in earshot into a deep sleep. 
> They show 
> > each
> > other publicity photos of famous jazz saxophonists while shouting 
> > things like
> > "No, no, you idiot! Can't you see he's clearly using an Otto Link
> > mouthpiece?! *That's* how he gets his sound!" They even have the 
> > equivilent
> > of obsessive sole lapping where they will spend hours 
> flattening the 
> > spot
> > where the reed contacts the metal mouthpiece on a piece of 
> sandpaper 
> > fixed to
> > plate glass.
> >
> > Welcome to the list, you poor bahstid......
> 
> no, no, art, i'll be a poor bahstid in a few months, right?  
> remember, 
> i still don't have any stanley planes...lol.
> 
> as for the instrument obsession, i've suffered from GAS (Gear 
> Acquisition Syndrome) for the past five years, but recently 
> have gotten 
> it under control...really, i have.  no, i mean it, ok?  ok, well, 
> mostly under control.  ok, well, mostly just too busy, but given the 
> opportunity i POUNCE....sorry, sorry, *whew*.  trembling.  
> must go home 
> and search for a bonade tenor sax ligature on ebay...or 
> decide if that 
> buescher "new aristocrat" in silver is going to be my work alto...
> 
> actually, when i was also buying and selling vintage trumpets 
> and other 
> brasswinds for a local shop (and to make a bit of money for my habit, 
> er, my accumulative need) i ran into paddy odeen on the tpin 
> list, when 
> he was the original benge nut.  does he still hang out here?
> 
> rotc:  anyone can tell me if there's an ohio tools site that 
> shows the 
> older block planes?  i think i have one.  pictures soon.
> 
> bill
> santa cruz, ca
> 
> just say you'll call back later when i can talk about it.
> 
> 
> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive
> To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>     http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools  
> 
> 

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:30:01 -0400, Neal Connor wrote:

>Wondering why my voice recognition software always parses "galoot" as
>either "pollute" or "the loot ".  You would think I mumble or something,

Maybe you need to put "galoot" in its dictionary and "train" the software 
to recognize the word.

On 17 Sep 2002, at 9:29, paul womack wrote:

> Any live close enough to Bill to put a tuned smoother, or truly sharp chisel
> in his hand, with a workpiece oh-so-temptingly ready on a good bench?
> If that doesn't push him over the edge, I don't know what will.

Oh, he's a BAG, whether he knows it or not yet. Ten days ago, he could 
have been in a room with three well-tuned Holteys, plus any number of other 
sharp planes, chisels, etc. But we'll get him.

-Ken

Ken Greenberg
IT #321; Blue Galoot #82
400 Los Gatos Blvd., Los Gatos, CA 95032
http://www.calast.com/ken/Personal/wood.htm

> 
> (old)
> Sargeant
> Union
> Millers Falls (if Randy hadn't got 'em all)
> Ohio
> Record
> Woden
> Marples
> Preston
> Norris
> Holland
> Spiers
> 
>      BugBear

Shame on you!

You left out "Shelton".

A truly memorable maker of metal planes, and instantly recognizable - at
least, you can be sure when you see one. Real impact.

Regards,

Matt Turner
Turner Racing Shells Ltd.
"Manufacturers of Only the Finest Quality Red Ink."

Bill Kasper wrote:
> hello, my name is Bill Kasper
.
.
.

> my lovely 
> wife (MLW, from now on) gave me a complete shopsmith, with all the bells 
> and whistles, for my birthday about two weeks

Don't worry, there's no contradiction in owning power tools,
and using hand tools. Power tools can take a lot
of time out of grunt stock preparation, thus freeing up
time for joint making, surface finishing (aah! the quiet hiss
of a rzor sharp smoother) and detailing.

Any live close enough to Bill to put a tuned smoother, or truly sharp chisel
in his hand, with a workpiece oh-so-temptingly ready on a good bench?
If that doesn't push him over the edge, I don't know what will.

      BugBear

Bill Kasper wrote:

> 
> 
> no, no, art, i'll be a poor bahstid in a few months, right?  remember, i 
> still don't have any stanley planes...lol.

Be a rebel! Don't buy Stanley planes! That'd get you out of the main traffic,
and into the gentle backwaters.

You'd still hae PLENTY of opportunities to buy fine and/or
rare tools:

Here's an (obviously incomplete) checklist of metallic planes,
to give you something to think about:

(old)
Sargeant
Union
Millers Falls (if Randy hadn't got 'em all)
Ohio
Record
Woden
Marples
Preston
Norris
Holland
Spiers

(new)
Clifton
Lie-Neilsen
Lee Valley (Veritas)
SJBTC
Shepard
Knight

     BugBear

Bill Kasper wrote:
> i guess i would have
> to make a wall box, too.  and i'd need more tools to make that, right?
> oh, god, this is too familiar...

Relax, we all do it.

Personally, in a quest to cut dovetails, I've purchased
a saw vise, some files, built a workbench, bought (and tuned)
2 saw Eclipse sets, bought a few old DT saws, installed 2 angle poise
lamps (sharpening small teeth requires good light) done
some practise sharpening on larger saws, made a saw jointing jig,
down loaded saw sharpening instruction, read everything in the Porch
archive on saw sharpening.

Oh, I've made a dovetailed box for a #71 router (*). In pine.

      BugBear

* non-electric tool for cutting surfaces parallel to, but recessed
below, the main work surface, Jeff.

Neal Connor wrote:
> Instrument acquisitions disorder, anyone? At last count here, it was a
> concertina, a bodhran , mandolin, gee-tar, tenor sax, alto sax,
> tambourine, three dizi (Chinese bamboo flutes), three pennywhistles, a
> bagpipe chanter, baby grand piano, Victorian pedal pump organ, and
> yes, one banhu and one erhu. Can I play any of them in public? None of
> your durn business.

I've got a Hammond C3 (and associated electro-mechanical loud speaker
system :-), which I can't play in public. I have a good reason - it took
professioanl shifters 2 hours to manouvre it into the house, and most
places I go don't have one sitting there for me to play.

And that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

     BugBear (who's heard of, but doesn't believe in, electronic
     oscillator circuits)